tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20978354.post2966690527204191392..comments2008-08-21T08:20:54.544-04:00Michael R. Kellerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07170175184112067309noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20978354.post-2218964038367114182008-08-21T08:20:00.000-04:002008-08-21T08:20:00.000-04:00As a counterpoint, if first-time players can grasp the strategies of the game and play competitively against experienced players in their very first play, the game may not have enough depth for a "heavy" game. <BR/><BR/>I think a good rule of thumb is that a player should be able to figure out within the first half of his first game "what am I supposed to be doing?", though he may not yet see the best way to go about doing it. By the end of the first playing, he should be able to look back and the game and recognize some of his moves as "mistakes", and have some ideas about what to do differently next time.<BR/><BR/>I would be careful about drawing too many conclusions or making too many big changes as a result of playtests with new players. Primarily, you want to design a game that holds up when played by experienced players, so you can be sure that there are no broken strategies. Seeing how new players react to the game and how quickly they climb the learning curve is helpful and important, but it should primarily affect the presentation of the game. True, the designer can't ship with the game, but there's no reason you can't provide some gentle strategic guidance in the rulebook if there is anything truly counterintuitive. There are of course games that are genuinely too complex or too convoluted for players to be able to learn, and they need to be simplified (I've designed several games like that!), but the counterintuitive elements in your game are really only very mildly counterintuitive and don't, I think, rise to the level where the game is hopelessly lost. Not by a longshot.Jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20978354.post-50199249482129930172008-08-21T01:54:00.000-04:002008-08-21T01:54:00.000-04:00Good luck with you design. I thumbed through the rules of 'Titans of Industry' and really enjoyed it. I hope to play it one day. :)<BR/><BR/>cclousercmclouserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15745568348969412568noreply@blogger.com